Fiona Day  0:00  
Fiona, welcome to transformational thinking for health leaders. I'm Dr Fiona day, Master Practitioner, coach and chartered coaching psychologist. This is a podcast that will help you meet your most complex leadership challenges and transform your perspectives, helping you to become a more effective and creative leader with a deeper understanding of yourself and your own world of work. Meherunissa Hamid is a public health professional currently pursuing a Doctor of Public Health, Dr Ph at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. She's currently living in the UK and is originally from Pakistan, where she worked on research and health delivery projects, including healthcare programs funded by international donors in both hospital and NGO environments. Her current doctoral thesis focuses on using evidence based research to bridge the gap between policy and real world implementation of health and social care interventions. She has a particular interest in understanding the experiences of those directly impacted by policies and interventions to address gaps in policy development and intervention strategies. So welcome to transformational thinking for health leaders. Meherunissa

Meherunissa Hamid  1:16  
thank you, Fiona, and thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast.

Fiona Day  1:20  
Thank you so much for being here. So here, Meherunissa, tell us if you would about your career so far. 

Meherunissa Hamid  1:26  
So my career so far has been a blend of project management and implementation of public health programs as well as research with a strong emphasis on improving healthcare systems in the hospital and NGO settings. And most of this work has been in Pakistan, and my work has been in areas around reproductive health, women's health and as well as infectious diseases. And if I talk a little bit about my most recent roles as a public health practitioner, it involved ensuring that health interventions were effectively delivered, sustainable and tailored to the needs of local communities.

Fiona Day  2:12  
That sounds really fascinating. And I suppose How did you get into this kind of work in the first place?

Meherunissa Hamid  2:18  
So I had a I started off in basic sciences, so I started with a degree in Biomedical Sciences, and then moved on to doing molecular biology of infectious diseases. And then when I moved back to Pakistan, I recognized, and I realized that there was a lot of scope and potential in working in the development sector, particularly health, and I quickly and swiftly moved on to working in reproductive health and doing formative research on on women's health in rural parts of Pakistan. And so began my career in public health. Wow.

Fiona Day  2:58  
And so you're in in quite rural areas than when you were working in Pakistan. Tell us. Tell us more about the kind of work that you were doing whilst you were there. So

Meherunissa Hamid  3:08  
particularly for this, this, this type of work that I was doing, I traveled across the country in different regions, working and interviewing women from very different backgrounds to mine, and I think this truly shaped the person that I am today and the skills that I have learned, and if I were to speak more generally. So I was born and raised in Pakistan, and have have spent a lot of years working in the health sector there, both in rural communities, in hospital settings and in NGO settings. So some of the core aspects of my work involved implementing health interventions, such as clinical trials, contributing to the expansion of the National Childhood tuberculosis program across certain parts of the country, and again, conducting formative research on women's health in Pakistan. And because I was working in such diverse settings, I had the opportunity, and a significant part of my role was also to lead multidisciplinary teams, and I would say that managing people was both challenging and rewarding, and I continue to reflect on this as a as it required balancing different perspectives, trying to foster collaboration, as well as guiding the team towards common goals, which is very important for most of the jobs that I did. So

Fiona Day  4:43  
you kind of out in the field quite a bit, overseeing the research that was going on, and managing the team of researchers as well. I suppose what? I suppose I'm curious like, what, what a typical week would have been like for you at that time,

Meherunissa Hamid  4:56  
when I started, a typical week would be a. I'm both in the office doing some things like literature review, reading around the subject that I was going to the field to work with the team, research team, and the women that we were working with. Then it would be collaborating and connecting with people who we were working with in the UK to that was supporting our study, and then also going into the field administrative work, and then really interviewing the women that we were were had sort of recruited to tell us their stories about their reproductive health, their needs and just generally, their challenges and barriers in accessing health services, particularly regarding their reproductive health,

Fiona Day  5:57  
Sounds fascinating and really important work. And yeah,

Meherunissa Hamid  6:01  
and, and sorry. And if I were to talk about my most recent role, that was in the hospital setting, implementing and sort of directing a leading clinical trials and tuberculosis and this require this. For this, I had a lot of responsibility to manage teams, to make sure that we were following the protocol correctly, and it definitely required a lot of communication skills and managing different parts of part, different parts of the trial, speaking to different partners, working with the government. Yeah,

Fiona Day  6:42  
sounds really fascinating and really challenging, I suppose, as well. And then, and then, I guess, at some point, you decided to take on applying for the very prestigious, internationally renowned Dr Ph, the Doctorate in Public Health from the London School. So tell us about how you came to a decision to apply and then tell us a little bit about the doctorate and how it's structured, if you would please. Yeah,

Meherunissa Hamid  7:08  
so my decision to do a Dr Ph, I had decided at some point that I would do a doctorate degree. I didn't know when and I didn't know how, because I was so busy with work and applying to the right school, applying to school where I would be most comfortable with and the kind of what the structure of the degree would be. So it was best suited for my needs as a public health professional, and because I'd done a Master's at the London School, previously, I decided that that would be the best place for me to start to apply, and I and I got into the school. And so began my journey for a Dr Ph. And so the Dr Ph has is structured in three components. So one is providing doing modules for leadership, and then also modules on evidence and evidence gap evidence and practice, really. And once you've done those modules, you then go on to do either your main research thesis or your organizational policy analysis. So I chose to do my my organizational policy analysis first, and I conducted this at the school itself, and it was an exploratory study to understand the London school's postgraduate research degree admissions process, so how formal and unwritten criteria impact the admissions of individuals from different backgrounds. And I chose this topic, and I have to say that the school was very supportive of me doing this research, and I chose this topic because I'm an international student myself, and I could see my peers applying to different parts of the world, and, you know, seeing my struggle and their struggle to get into a good school, to Do a postgraduate degree, and sort of what the barriers were and at an organizational level. So I learned a lot from that, and currently my research is centered on understanding how social care workforce training in England are designed to by policy makers and experienced by women in the social care workforce. So using an intersectional lens that considers factors such as diversity, race, gender and migration,

Fiona Day  9:50  
sounds really kind of cutting edge then that kind of intersectional lens and also sounds like the kind of policy analysis that you did. I. Would have yielded some really useful information for the school. Were you able to feed any of that back to them?

Meherunissa Hamid  10:06  
Yes, I had the I was given multiple opportunities to present my findings, and I believe it's it has been used and referenced in certain sort of school level documents for work that the school is doing on addressing some of the issues and barriers that students might face in accessing the school in terms of admissions and various other

Fiona Day  10:40  
aspects, and in terms of your, you know, the research around social care that you're doing, are you able to share any early findings yet, or is it, is it too soon?

Meherunissa Hamid  10:49  
Well, I'm in the process of writing my results, so I think it's a bit too soon to discuss that. But I would say that that I interviewed women who are care workers in Adult Social Care, and I, I had, it was a great, wonderful opportunity to speak, to speak to them, and I learned a lot in terms of how much value these women give to their work, and the time they took to speak to me. And I really appreciated that their support and their willingness to help and to talk to me, to discuss and share their experiences. I think it was a fabulous opportunity for me, and I look forward to writing up and sharing my results with them and the wider community. It

Fiona Day  11:41  
sounds amazing, because there's such a such an important part of the health and care system, are the kind of frontline carers, aren't they, and so traditionally under recognized and undervalued and underpaid, and so I guess giving up their time to engage in research, you must have had some, you know, innovative ways in terms of how you reached out to people. How did you find your interviewee subject?

Meherunissa Hamid  12:07  
That was it required a lot of communication with and scoping with a lot of my my peers, my colleagues, people I was working with at the school, the professors at the school, just spreading the word. But I think the most important sort of group that helped me were the participants themselves and word of mouth, and for them to share my study and to and to and to discuss them with my with their friends, and so that's how a lot of people got in touch with me, and I was able to interview them. And I think trust was a major factor in this, because they trusted the person who was referring me to them. My participants were able to speak to me, in some cases, very openly, to share their stories. I

Fiona Day  13:01  
can imagine, it takes a lot of trust to be able to do that, you know. And I guess you're particularly interested in in the kind of you know, direct how people are impacted by policies and interventions, aren't you specifically so being creating that trust for people to feel comfortable, to come forward and and be heard and speak out, is really important skill that you had. So I suppose I'm curious about your skill set, really, and what you've learned in terms of skills from the Dr Ph, and where you see your skills developing in the future.

Meherunissa Hamid  13:38  
Before I answer that that question, I would like to say that I believe we are living in a time where complex policy environments and understanding how policies are shaped and their real life impact on us is really important, and that involves understanding how power dynamics play A role in policy formation and exploring ways and ways to make policies more equitable, particularly for more marginalized communities in terms of implementing those policies, I think as I move forward in my career and what I've learned from the DR page, I feel my main skills have involved the combination of project management, qualitative research, policy analysis, and definitely engaging with stakeholders, be it at the policy level or at the community level, with a very strong focus on being more inclusive and creating more effective health policies. My experience working in Pakistan as well as my research in England has made me aware of a very crucial skill that I think I've learned, or I suppose I am still learning, to practice, is adaptability, and I am and I think as I continue. Work on global health issues, I hope to contribute to making interventions more practical on the ground and inclusive, as well as more culturally sensitive.

Fiona Day  15:11  
So something that you're kind of wanting to do there, and isn't there in terms of some kind of practical implementation that you really want to see kind of step change, I guess, in terms of how this is achieved. And where do you see yourself in the future? Then where would you like to go? We were to bump into each other in 10 years time, what do you hope that you're going to be doing

Meherunissa Hamid  15:33  
well in 10 years? I envision myself in a position where I'm making a tangible impact on global health policy, particularly in areas of women's health, workforce, diversity and health equity. Ideally, I'd see myself in a role that combine combines policy advice, research and leadership. That's what I'm working towards, and I want to be at the forefront of shaping health policies that address systemic inequities and ensuring that they're not only inclusive in design, but again, effective in practice. And I think I would like to continue in some academic capacity as well in terms of research and mentorship.

Fiona Day  16:23  
So that would be like having a foot in both camps in terms of policy development and evaluation and the kind of the academic side as well. Do you, I mean, are you a teacher as well? Do you do much education? Is that part of yourself in the future, or is it, is it more the actually policy, implementation and evaluation that you're interested in.

Meherunissa Hamid  16:44  
I'm interested in a mix of both. At the moment, I enjoy the implementation part, but I also enjoy the research and the policy analysis, because I think it gives me a good position to be in a good space to get to, sort of bridge that evidence and practice gap. But I also enjoy teaching. I have started to I'm a seminar leader for one of the modules at the school, and I've and it's a face to face module. So it's I find it challenging, but it's a good challenge. I enjoy talking to the students, learning from them, and I do enjoy the part where I can give my feedback and help and support people with whatever they need to understand with their assignments, just generally, pastoral care, if that's needed, sounds

Fiona Day  17:46  
really important work. And I guess saying you're kind of really making the most of every opportunity from your doctorate to explore different aspects of you as a public health professional going into the future. And I think your DR page is coming through, and then soon, if you, I guess, if you're writing up your thesis at the moment, so, so kind of, what's your next step? What does the next year look like for you?

Meherunissa Hamid  18:09  
Well, I've been thinking a lot about this a lot recently, and I think my next career move is to transition into a more advisory roles, specifically within the realm of women's health and reproductive health. If I can, I'd like to focus also on women from minoritized groups in lower resource settings and and I'm particularly interested in working with multilateral organizations and I'd like to continue to consult with public health consulting firms, which I've done limited but I haven't enjoyed doing that, where I can apply my research and project management skills to influence policy at a broader level. No, I wish you

Fiona Day  19:00  
well with that and with the writing up of your thesis. I imagine it's pretty busy, busy time for you at the moment as you pull it all together. And I guess kind of just thinking really about, you know, the last five years and what you've learned, and what, what feel like the most important thing that you've learned about yourself as a public health leader of the future in the last five years? So

Meherunissa Hamid  19:24  
that's a really good question, and I have three, three things I think I've learned in the last five years, and one is one of the most important lessons I've learned during my Dr Ph research, is that policy intentions don't always fully translate into real life impact, and the key to bridging that gap lies in truly understanding the experiences of people the policy is made for, or the end user. And the second thing I've learned is that addressing complex issues such as gender. Race and equality requires both a top down and a bottom up approach. So policy changes must be informed by evidence and data, but they also need to be, I believe, grounded in the lived experience of the experiences of those the policy aims to serve. This perspective has really shifted how I approach my work. That means emphasizing the need for inclusive and contextually relevant strategies that go beyond theory and intent. And lastly, reflecting on my time as a public health practitioner in Pakistan, I truly believe that honest and accountable mentorship plays a really crucial role in shaping one's career. I think it provided provides guidance and builds confidence and really offers that safe space to navigate challenges. So yes, so these have been my three key learnings from the last five years. Yeah, really

Fiona Day  21:02  
great insights there. Meherunissa, so thank you so much. And I suppose that that kind of real dialectic of both the bottom up and the top down, and being able to hold both of those and integrate both of those sounds so like a real kind of way forward for the future, doesn't it, and that you've kind of really got some insight into how you might go about doing that increasingly going forward. So really wish you well with this next chapter and with your thesis as well. And thank you ever so much for taking the time to talk with me today.

Meherunissa Hamid  21:36  
Thank you. I really enjoyed myself and as well. Thank you.

Fiona Day  21:40  
Thank you. If you've enjoyed this podcast and would like to find out more, head over to www dot fionaday consulting.co.uk, and you'll receive three hours of free CPD, the health career success program when you sign up to my newsletter. And there's loads of other resources to support you as a medical or public health leader on my website too. Thanks for listening. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai